Think on this for a while.
So I know this girl that I like very much. Her and her husband are in the process of a divorce. She is involved with a man now who is much older than her (Tom Cruise Katie Holmes style), who, in my mind, was sort of waiting in the wings for her marriage to fail. They were good 'friends', and then hooked up one time, and well, since her marriage wasn't that awesome, she decided to leave her husband, but NOT because she wanted to persue a relationship with the older guy--that's what she says, at least. So anyhow. Older guy, is a little less divorced than she is, but is actually beginning the process now. Older guy has been married to wife for like 16 years, has a 15 yo daughter with wife, and wife has a college aged daughter that he has been a father to the entire time they have been together. So there's some background.
Had a conversation with my friend today, because she's angry at old guy's wife. Old guy's wife is being a real pain about the divorce, doesn't want to get a divorce, being really mean and angry about it. And allowing daughters to be angry at their father too, instead of telling them not to be.
Well duh.
Of course, my friend claims that their marriage has been over for a long time, and can't figure out why she's fighting the divorce. She says the kids are very angry at their dad (old guy) for leaving their mom. Mom gave advice to college age daughter that she should still be nice to old guy, because after all, old guy is paying for her college still. But daughters are angry at him.
My friend thinks that's awful. I think that's just the way the cookie crumbles. Mom is right--daughter should be nice to father, and treat him with respect, if she wants him to keep paying the tuition. It sucks, but it's reality. She reads old guy's e-mail, and daughter told him in an e-mail that she is so angry with him for leaving her mom, that she wants to punch him in the face.
My friend thinks that's just terrible, and that one should never ever say something like that or feel that way about their father.
I told her that obviously I don't know any of them, but, it seems to me that his daughters are just angry about the breakup, and that they are taking their anger out on their dad because he's the one initiating the divorce. Looks pretty obvious to me, right?
My friend thinks that it's still wrong, and they should be angry at their mom too, because she did things that made him want a divorce, like make him take the trash out and spend his money. They should also be angry at mom because she's already posted her profile online with thoughts of dating again, which is worse, because their dad isn't dating anyone else yet. And, mom has threatened suicide.
Well, I pointed out, that technically, if she is sleeping with their dad, and dating their dad, their dad is technically cheating on their mom. And mom probably suspects this, and it's not uncommon for jilted wives to threaten suicide. At least not in my experience.
She thinks that doesn't count, because they apparently don't know that old guy is seeing my friend. But I think that still counts.
Personally, I question whether or not that's true. Through my experiences, I think the wife always has an inkling when the husband is cheating, and I'll bet they know more than my friend thinks. But that's just my guess. And it seems to me, like kid always know the score. Me and my brothers always did.
This frustrates me. Because my friend is part of the homewrecker team. And I like her very much. But what she is doing--is just wrong. I'm not saying she is totally to blame, because obviously, the old guy is more to blame. It's his family that he is screwing up, he should be the one concerned with making it work out, not my friend. But since I have felt intense anger at both of my parents for things they have done during my dad's affair and stuff--and have told them some awful things I have felt and thought about them (ok, really, mostly just my dad)--I feel like I can understand where the daughters are coming from. So one told him she is so angry she wants to punch him in the face. Big deal. I told my dad, that I was so angry, and that he hadn't just lied to my mom and betrayed her, he had betrayed all of us, and lied to all of us, and ruined our family. I told him things like, "I love you dad, but basically, I don't believe anything you say". And meant it. And even though I love my dad still, and I really do feel like I have forgiven him--sometimes, when I talk to him, and he pays me a compliment or tells me he loves me, I think to myself "Right. You loved mom too, and you had sex with another woman. You loved my mom the way I love Kevin, and yet, you had sex with someone else, and you lied to all of us. How can I possibly know that you really mean what you say, when you could so easily lie to the person you are supposed to love, honor, and cherish forever?"
And then I instantly feel guilty. Because he's my dad. And I love him. And I forgive him. So where did all those awful thoughts come from??
Point is--if the old guy's daughters are angry with him for leaving their mom, they are allowed to be angry, and to say a few crappy things, because what he is doing is affecting their lives in a miserable way, and they can't do anything about it. And the truth is--let's just call a spade a spade- their dad's a cheater. If they are making him feel bad, that's good, because he should be feeling bad. He deserves to feel bad, because this is mostly his fault. I'm not saying he should stay with his wife if he's not happy, but deciding to leave your wife after you start nailing a girl 26 years younger than you, well, that's not the right way. He's changing the lives of his wife and daughters forever, and it can never be undone. I'm not saying it won't be OK again, but some things, you can never take back.
OK, am I right, or am I just jaded? I suspect I am mostly just jaded, because ever since my dad's affair, and watching it destroy my mom and hurt our whole family, well, I just seem to see things differently. Thoughts?
6 Comments:
I think it's totally understandable for you and the girl to be angry. It must feel like such a betrayal, and the cause of the break-up of a family. And as always, when people are hurt, they say things to hurt the um, hurter, so it's very understandable. But I guess I just hope that eventually, over time and talking and etc, that people sort of mend and work through that anger because it's not healthy and family is family after all.
You know, I'm glad to hear that you guys seem to understand where I am coming from. As far as my friend--I just don't understand what she's thinking. Whenever she talks to me about him, I try and point her in the direction of the big picture, you know? Ask her if she is serious about really being with this guy, and if he's serious about being with her, and considerations that need to be made about that fact that he's a cheater if she does really plan to have a relationship with him in the future, and the dangers or her son being so attached to him (she has a 3 yo son that adores the old guy...) and it always comes back as me just being narrow-minded. I don't know. I usually find that when I talk to people involved in affairs though, that I seem to come off to them as narrow-minded. I usually tend to point out that even if they do end up with their cheating beau, they are always going to know in the back of their minds that he is theirs because he cheated on his wife, and how can they guarantee that he won't do that to them? Of course, I always, and I mean ALWAYS hear the same responses: 1. It's different for them. 2. His relationship with his wife has been over long before new girlfriend came into the picture and 3. I'm narrow-minded. Then of course I argue that I'm not saying he will definitely cheat on them, but, aren't they afraid of that, knowing that he cheated before, to be with them? The response is always "No, he wouldn't cheat on me, we're different, we're in love".
Do these girls think that the wives of these men didn't think the same thing at one point--that they were in love, and no one would ever cheat?
The sad truth is: Just like some women, some men tell lies. Some people are bad, and they lie and they cheat, and they steal, and they do bad stuff. They hurt the people they love. It just seems to me, that there are some 'cheating man lies' that I have seen come up several times, and I can't be the only one that has seen them. So when you see this things going on, wouldn't that be a red flag? I think that when men cheat, one of the things they do is tell the girl they want to nail what an awful bitch their wife is, and make the other girl feel sorry for them that they are stuck with such a terrible awful woman that they do everything for and that doesn't appreciate them. I have seen so many examples of that, and read so much about that kind of stuff happening, that when I hear some guy moaning about his awful wife and being under appreciated, I just kinda turn off my ears. Because most likely, they are lying. And quite possibly, they aren't discussing any of this with the one person they should be discussing it with--their wife.
Therefore, (wow, I have a point? I guess sort of...) I feel no sympathy whatsoever when my friend tells me of the woes that the old guy's wife puts him through. Because I am sure he is putting her through woes too. And he is--he's having an affair. I think that's worse than her making him take the garbage out or not having sex with him for 2 weeks.
Look at me, getting all fired up about this again...it just really pisses me off.
1- kids get to be pissed, they are kids, regardless of how old they are. there are kids and there are parents, and the parents have to suck up their feelings in a lot of cases because they are the parents. the kids are mourning a loss- if their father was killed, they would probably feel angry with him as well. the dad they knew and trusted, in many ways, isn't there anymore, and they are mad.
2- wife feels betrayed- obviously. wife should grow up and not use her children to express her anger to dad. threatening suicide is a) mean, b) abandoning her kids (kind of like dad is doing) and c) a possible sign of serious mental defect (ie borderline or major depression). There is supposedly such a thing as grace in these situations (think Jackie Kennedy). I pray that if i wind up in such a situation (god forbid), that i will remember to attempt grace.
3- no offfense. really. your friend is a moron. a) she's fucking a guy way older and more experienced. and she's not increasing her maturity to match the requirements of such an involved situation. if she is serious about this guy, she should realize that he has two kids (about her age, sounds like) that will be a part of his life. she should have empathy for them at least. b) she is not different, their love isn't different, there's no way to know you won't get cheated on. that's life. you trust someone or you don't- and you have to decide that you do or you don't. if she chooses to trust him, it's her buisness, and i hope it goes well for her. either way, she HAS to act more reasonably about his kids. they get to be mad- and probably will be mad at her also.
Ultimately, no one can know what the future will be like. remember christina from next door to me in the dorm? she told me that her mom says if a guy breaks up with you, never ask him why. you don't really want to know, and it will just sour the situation for him to tell you. if the guy wants a divorce, the wife will have to accept that- she won't convince him. and hopefully your friend will not tie herself to a really complicated and sad situation... ugh.
You girls rock. I love you, ladies.
I don't know what's going to happen in this situation. I can't even pretend to guess.
If anything noteworthy happens though, I will let you guys know:).
Actually, I think I am starting to agree with the friend is a moron thing--she mentioned today that she wouldn't mind if she suddenly accidentally turned up pregnant right now.
what the?? I'm thinking, in this situation, she doesn't need any more stressors, and should be very careful. Isn't that crazy? Like I said before, not seeing the big picture.
FYI--I'm rocking out in my A&P II class right now. I have one test left to take before the end of the semester, and then I'm done! Woohoo!!
I really appreciate your input and your points of view. Thanks.
ok, melissa, right on the money on the friend. but let me back up.
as a kid who's parents divorced, and there was no cheating, you are angry. plain and simple. it doesn't matter how amicable the parents are, how nicely it is done. it is still done. divorce is painful and unhappy and not ever a good thing in the minds of the children, regardless. my parents are great, i love them and i love my step-parents, both of them, VERY MUCH. but that doesn't mean i'll ever be thrilled with the divorce.
that being said, i agree with you on all points. i understand almost all, and i think you are on it.
i also think, and i'm just saying, that if she wants to talk about it, she isn't fully comfortable with it because she keeps talking to you about it- you who ARE pointing out the obvious not-so-good situation she's in, he's in, they're all it. deep down, i think she knows... and as dr phil would say (i know i know) 'if he'll cheat with you, he'll cheat on you' ... she probably knows that too. and i would guess the wife does know, because us girls have that 6th sense about the men in our lives.
Isn't it funny that we can all come to a consensus? Why can't my friend?
You are right. Even if there was no cheating involved, it still sucks to have your parents divorce.
I think you are right--I think deep down, she knows something is wrong with this.
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